“If you don't have the money … you're going to end up doing more time.”
Excerpt from an interview with James, a defendant at the Hall of Justice in San Jose, CA in summer 2021.
Interviewer: Okay. So then, the next question is sort of broadly --open ended question. I'm curious to hear your thoughts on, if you could change the court system, what things would you change about it?
James: So, I can change the court system? Um, I would say, um...just a better understanding of the people that they're working with and their situations and, you know, their mental health and stuff like that.
Interviewer: Mm hmm.
James: So that, um, we can truly understand what --because a lot of times people come from adversity, which then it causes them to do stuff, you know. Especially --especially me. That's like --I'm talking about my situation, you know.
Interviewer: Mm hmm.
James: And it seems like, you know, when you go to court, they don't really care about whether, you know, what you've been through, they type of life that you've lived, where you come from, you know. It's more just like, uh, "we want our money," you know, because if you pay for, like, a high-class lawyer, you know, chances are you're going to get, you know, you're going to get off. You know, if you don't have the money to pay for that or something, you're going to end up, you know, doing more time or more punishment. Even if, you know, you've never been arrested or anything like that. You know?
Interviewer: Mm hmm.
James: It doesn't matter to them at that point. It's more about what you can give to the court financially. It's like, uhh, a money game.
Interviewer: Right. Right. Do you mind telling me a little bit more about your observations about money? Like, maybe an example that you would be willing to share about something, maybe, that happened in court that made you feel that way?
James: Well, um, first time I went to court, I never talked to anybody. My public defender he seemed like he was in a rush, like, he had a lot of cases. I kind of felt for him.
Interviewer: Mm hm.
James: But then --when I --when it came to defending me, it seemed like he just wanted to, like, move me along the line, you know? Like, it was just like, "Do you want to do this? Do you want to do this?" Didn't hear me out, anything like that, you know. And then I, um, I'd see another guy in his court case. He paid for the lawyer, and he's telling me I should definitely pay for the lawyer. And I see how he's handling his case, you know. It's more, um, more hands on, you know. He's like more so trying to understand what actually happened. Whereas nobody even asked me what, you know, what happened during the entire case. They just kind of like, "You want to do this? Do you want to sit in jail for a year? I'm like, "I've never been to jail in my life."
Interviewer: Right.
James: You know, and he's like, "Then, all right. So, all right, we'll just get an extension. All right? We'll just get an extension." It's just like --it seems, like, less than, umm, less than professional work --
Interviewer: Mmm --
James: From the public defender's office. As opposed to, like, someone who paid for a lawyer.
**
Related research:
Friedman, Brittany, Alexes Harris, Beth M. Huebner, Karin D. Martin, Becky Pettit, Sarah KS Shannon, and Bryan L. Sykes. 2022. "What Is Wrong with Monetary Sanctions? Directions for Policy, Practice, and Research." RSF: The Russell Sage Foundation Journal of the Social Sciences 8, no. 1: 221-243.
Page, Joshua, and Joe Soss. 2021. "The predatory dimensions of criminal justice." Science 374, no. 6565: 291-294.
Clair, Matthew. 2021. "Criminalized Subjectivity: Du Boisian Sociology and Visions for Legal Change." Du Bois Review: Social Science Research on Race: 1-31.
